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Levels of veganism
The natural evolution of the term/word/descriptor.
Eckto
ID#: 160332
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7:52:46 AM on 24-01-2010
Hi all,

Whilst sitting around at a local restaurant having dinner last night discussing ways to improve the world, and what we were actually eating. The conversation turned to what actually does entitle someone to use the word vegan.

Anyway, without going into too much detail about the conversation, we came up with the following. And mind you, for a shallow ignorant group and with no alcohol being involved, I do think that we came up with a pretty good foundation.

Keep in mind that this is a work in progress at the moment, and may need some find tuning. I though I would 'release' it to the wider and more aware forum for it's next stage in growth. Because after all, how much do 6 people sitting around a table all with the same view and beliefs, really know about anything.

We were having trouble deciding on what system to use to define the different areas within the term vegan.
Initially it was proposed to use degrees and to have some code words that you could use to find out if there were other vegans at the same level as you, and to avoid insulting or upsetting those vegans at a lower level. That idea was quickly squashed, as we soon realised it had Masonic undertones, and implied that we want to take over the world. After all, each of us knows that vegans can't and won't have any sort of worthwhile impact on society...

Then it went to a ranking system, with the actual name of the rank to be discussed later. That idea was quickly rejected as it implies organisation and uniformity. As we know, vegans have no idea what they are doing and don't want to be told what or how to do it.

Finally we settled on a declining numerical system, with the idea being to work your way to the number below the level you are currently at.

Level 9:
Someone that has no idea what a vegan is, and only uses the term to pick up members of the opposite/same sex.

Level 8:
Someone that is vegan for health reasons. They are not really that fussed on the use of animals for clothing/entertainment/science and won't object if they occasionally consume animal products.

Level 7:
Follows the vegan way of life, though occasionally buys something made out of leather or wool. Though only if it looks good, and they can accessorise it with their current/future wardrobe.

Level 6:
Vegan that occasionally consumes dairy/eggs or honey item, as long as it is in something else. Such as a cake, biscuits, etc.

Level 5:
Vegan that will only eat their own free range eggs for chooks that they have rescued.

Level 4:
Vegan that follows the does not consume any animal products. Will not buy any 'new' wool or leather items, though 2nd hand are ok.

Level 3:
Someone that avoids all animal products. Does not wear or eat them, and all personal care products are animal free. Though they are not too worried about animal products in alcohol, as who can really be bothered reading a label when they have trouble stringing more than 3 words together in a coherent form.

Level 2:
Avoids all animal products in food, clothing, entertainment and alcohol. Yet they still live in modern society.

Level 1:
Avoids all animal products. They grow their own organic vegetables and live 'off the grid' removed from society.

Level 0:
This is the pinnacle of veganism. This is achieved by stripping naked and committing suicide in the ocean. As this will cause the least impact on other animals and your dead body should become food for the marine creatures, and could theoretically have a less than negative impact.

noosagranny
ID#: 160333
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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8:06:31 AM on 24-01-2010
LOL.

Without wanting to discourage your quest, there are a number of folks who are left out and don't have a level to cling to, e.g.:

1. folks who are vegan for the environment (rather than health)

2. folks who eat free range eggs from chooks verified to be free range (but not necessarily rescued.)

3. folks who eat honey but are otherwise vegan

4. folks who will use wool but not leather

5. folks who will eat mussels (questionable 'sentience' level and don't really have a face,)

No doubt there are others.

So given that your quest is doomed I'd say it is time to join level 0.  :>)

I call myself a vegetarian who doesn't eat dairy.
I really don't mind about mussels either, except that as an environmentalist I am concerned about seafood depletion and so choose not to consume them.

What is most interesting about the whole exercise is the obsession with how we label ourselves.
te3by
ID#: 160337
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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9:50:09 AM on 24-01-2010
I thought a level 5 vegan didn't eat anything that cast a shadow...

Sorry...watching too much Simpsons lately...

ZanyZebra
ID#: 160338
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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9:51:52 AM on 24-01-2010
Not that I think too much time should be spent on labels, anyhow I will contribute in the spirit of the exercise.

I suggest an ammedment to Level 0: (Activist Exemption clause)
"Suicide only when one has not converted a person to veganism in the last 12 months or a vegetarian in the last 3 months to negate the innocent animal deaths caused by a being a Vegan (Level 0-9) on planet Earth."
broadbean
ID#: 160341
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10:38:19 AM on 24-01-2010
ROFL @ Eckto.

Let no one ever accuse you of lacking a sense of humour. A fine effort indeed, good work. :-)
Eckto
ID#: 160342
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10:40:47 AM on 24-01-2010
noosagranny,

I believe that your suggestions should fit within the following levels.

1. folks who are vegan for the environment (rather than health)
* This would be level 9, as the reason for adopting veganism is not really out of an initial concern for the animals.

2. folks who eat free range eggs from chooks verified to be free range (but not necessarily rescued.)
* This would depend on the definition of 'free range' if they are your own, I suggest Level 5. If they are commercially obtained, I would be leaning more towards vegetarian, unless they are vegan and eggs is their only 'vice'

3. folks who eat honey but are otherwise vegan
* This one would be within the umbrella of a Level 6

4. folks who will use wool but not leather
* I suggest Level 7

5. folks who will eat mussels (questionable 'sentience' level and don't really have a face,)
* This is a good point to bring up. Not really sure where it would fit in. Possibly Level 5...

ZZ,
Are you suggesting that being vegan isn't enough, and that they need to go out and do some sort of 'missionary' work to convert the lost?

Veganism is about doing what you are comfortable with. What if the new vegan is inherently shy, and not comfortable talking to other people about it?

Also when does the 12/3 month time frame begin? It is for your own V Day, or does it reset itself every time you get a convert?
ZanyZebra
ID#: 160344
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:00:54 AM on 24-01-2010
My comment is all in the spirit of the thread Eckto.
Let's not try and make it personal now with words such as  "your own"...

If you really want to take my comment seriously, the calculation should also take into account the age the converted was (A teenager is more value than a senior citizen).
Eckto
ID#: 160345
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11:06:34 AM on 24-01-2010
ZZ,

I used the term 'your own' as in the individual person that is progressing through the levels of veganism.
cerberus
ID#: 160346
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:16:22 AM on 24-01-2010
te3by, does that mean it's OK to eat vampires?
te3by
ID#: 160352
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:51:35 AM on 24-01-2010
must be! might send the OH out now to get me one.
MikeyM
ID#: 160356
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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12:49:30 PM on 24-01-2010
you wouldn’t want to sauté them with garlic :-)
Neykid
ID#: 160358
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12:58:44 PM on 24-01-2010
Weird... I never heard of vegans eating mussels.
lethe
ID#: 160370
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3:56:11 PM on 24-01-2010
what about cannibal vegans: vegans who would rescue the animals being co-transported on their trans-atlantic flight and start to slaughter fellow survivors?
anthill
ID#: 160373
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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4:13:46 PM on 24-01-2010
I dont mean to boast but I'm working towards level 0.
extremelylara
ID#: 160567
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:40:21 PM on 25-01-2010
lets not overlook that obscure variety: vegans who eat road-kill.  I kid you not.  They hang out with vegans who will eat anything out of a dumpster.
MikeyM
ID#: 160569
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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12:14:55 AM on 26-01-2010
extremelylara

every Friday night i eat food recycled from a dumpster ... with a group distributing food to the homeless ... always vegan of course ... so far i haven’t seen anyone hanging out with the group that admits to eating road kill ... however i will have to ask around as i am curious :-)

mike
zucchini1
ID#: 160587
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9:26:53 AM on 26-01-2010
Oh geez.... I have discovered that I am Level 9

Am I bad?

Cheers
zucchini1
ID#: 160589
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9:30:40 AM on 26-01-2010
I do beleive this thread has breached the forum rules

Isn't it supposed to be posted under 'humorous'?
Eckto
ID#: 160590
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9:35:39 AM on 26-01-2010
That would be if you believe that I posted it to be humorous.

There is a reason why it is under "controversial issues"
lethe
ID#: 160647
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2:10:05 PM on 26-01-2010
cannibal vegans should be level -1, or -(however many survivors you eat before you're rescued)
cazzamanda
ID#: 160707
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5:04:53 PM on 26-01-2010
So i found another variation of levels by googling it. Level 7 is pretty hardcore. lol

The Seven Levels of Veganism by Greg Lawson - [email protected]

It is hard to be totally vegan. Many of us fall a little short of that goal. Therefore, I offer this guide for determining just how vegan we are.

Vegan Level One - Doesn't ask if there is chicken stock in the rice, doesn't ask if there is lard in the beans.

Vegan Level Two - Occasionally buys milk chocolate products. Doesn't worry about how the wine they drink is clarified.

Vegan Level Three - Only eats milk chocolate if someone else bought it. Eats doughnuts at work if someone else brought them in. Eats their roommate's ice cream. Also known as a Freegan.

Vegan Level Four - Still wears the old leather and wool products they had before they went vegan, but feels guilty about it.

Vegan Level Five - Stopped using their car because of the animal products in tires, the animal testing of vehicles, the animal products in the pavement.

Vegan Level Five point one - Stopped riding with friends to the movie theater because of the above and the fact that film is processed with animal gelatin.

Vegan Level Six - Has given up all products that involve animals in any way. Hires someone to sweep the path ahead of them as they walk so they don't tread on insects.

Vegan Level Seven - Similar to a Jain. Wears a mask to keep from breathing in small critters. Uses a mild vegan soap that doesn't kill microbes, it just floats them away. Washes their raw organic produce outside with bottled water so that any little beasts will return to the earth rather than going down the sink. Realizes that having someone sweep ahead of them hurts the insects and so doesn't move around much anymore.


extremelylara
ID#: 160942
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:27:15 PM on 28-01-2010
mikey M - you're foodNotBombs! me too.  HI!!!!!  glad to know it's still going strong.   nothing against dumpster diving; I've done it plenty and done it well.  It was infact,  my dumpstering mates in Melbourne, (fellow FnB-ers) who said they eat road kill. Perhaps they were being theoretical, or controversial, as i never saw it happen.
te3by
ID#: 160943
Vegetarian and Vegan Society of Queensland member
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11:34:01 PM on 28-01-2010
Major jump from four to five, cazzamanda!
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