As some of you know already I have been required to go to abbatoirs as part of my course. In the last three days I have been not only to 4 abbatoirs (chicken, sheep, cattle and kangaroo), I have also been to a sheep feedlot for live export and an egg packing factory.

I am not going to describe the sheer horrors I have seen as words fail me. It was worse than watching Earthlings though.

I know you all know the horrors but I thought if anyone had any questions I am happy to answer them as I know now what happens in real life in the Australian situation.

Indeed, I can't begin to imagine how difficult this has been for you. To dream of becoming a vet to help animals, and to be subjected to the real horror of their lives must be devastating. I wish you every strength, and sincere love and support.

What percentage are stunned properly, if at all?  I have heard stories from a very reliable source, who used to work in an abattoir (cattle), that eyes are "shot" out and just left hanging down their faces.  

What percentage of chickens pull their heads up and don't get zapped or have their throats slit before they tumble into the boiling vats?    

How do the kill the sheep?  Are they supposed to be stunned?  How do they get through all the wool when they slit their throats?

Kangaroos?  Don't they come in already dead?  Shot?  Are you going to tell me that live kangaroos are coming in to an abattoir to be killed?

How many baby male chicks are actually dead before they go through the grinder?

How do they kill crocodiles on crocodile farms?

You just need someone to ask all these questions on top of what you have been through, don't you, Indeed?

I was wondering where abouts are they in WA? Im curious. I know there is a pig factory farm in Mandurah and an abbatoir in Harvey but apart from that have never heard anything. When people say that "it" doesnt happen in Australia Id like to say well it does here, here and here...

Another question- I talked about it on another thread a while ago and is kind of off topic. When i was going to uni the other day I was following a chicken truck. I have seen the pig and sheep ones before but never seen chicken trucks before. They were all jammed in and it was horrible. Felt so mad. So I overtook it but it followed me into uni.
Not sure where it drove as I was way off in front of it. But i go to the back part of uni through the windy road past all those horses (love passing by them every day) and thats the road it followed me to turn into. So I was wondering if you knew why the truck would go to uni? Is it to do with the vet school. There were just so many chickens I couldnt think where they'd be going although I assumed it wasn't for anything good.

Also I know you dont want sympathy, but I just wanted to say that I am sorry you have to face such horrors (and again and again) and I think you are very brave. I hope that other vet students found it disturbing as well. This must be so awful for you :(

indeed, if you wouldn't mind I would like to pass your email onto a friend of mine who is working on a campaign to show Earthlings on a larger scale (i.e. universities, high schools etc). One of the issues that I mentioned in convincing people to watch it is the fact that it isn't accepted that  conditions are the same in Australia. From experience that is a common response I have gotten from people that have been exposed to the film. Maybe you could offer some insight on your studies and whatever else... Oh and CC, I think you would have invaluable aid too, if you had the time. Please PM me if you wanna help out. cheers.

That is ok DH. This has been a terrible experience but a strengthening one in another way too.

To try and answer your questions:

"What percentage are stunned properly, if at all?"

For cattle I watched the kill area for about 10 mins and in that time they slaughtered about 5-6 cattle and of those one was not stunned properly. Another one was thrashing so much when her throat was slit she fell off the table. I don`t know if she was stunned properly or not. I suppose that makes it about 1/5 not stunned properly that I saw but it was only a 10 minute sample.

"I have heard stories from a very reliable source, who used to work in an abattoir (cattle), that eyes are "shot" out and just left hanging down their faces. "  

In the one I was at they used a metal bolt gun stunner - they eyes were left in. I am sure it happens though.

"What percentage of chickens pull their heads up and don't get zapped or have their throats slit before they tumble into the boiling vats? "  

A lot of chickens were flapping madly when throats were slit - there was no one monitoring the stun area and there is no vet at the chicken abbatoir. I would estimate a good 30% are not stunned. There are also some chickens where the throat is not slit properly and they do not bleed out properly and so go into the scalding tank still alive - these are called "red chickens" as they are still full of blood.

"How do the kill the sheep?  Are they supposed to be stunned?  How do they get through all the wool when they slit their throats? "

They hold an electric stunner to their head for a prescribed length of time. This renders them unconcious for about 30 sec (I think its 30 sec). The knife has to be very sharp to get through the wool - also Halal slaughter requires one slit to the throat only. The person cutting throats that I saw had a blunt knife and was sawing at the throats - he was repremanded by the vet.

"Kangaroos?  Don't they come in already dead?  Shot?  Are you going to tell me that live kangaroos are coming in to an abattoir to be killed? "

No sorry I should have said kangaroo processing plant not abbatoir/ Yes they are shot - must be a single head shot for human consumption. There is no regulation for pet food. Any Joeys with mums killed  have their heads hit on a rock/ the ground to kill them.

"How many baby male chicks are actually dead before they go through the grinder?"

I don`t know this one, I didn`t go to the breeder farm which is where I think they kill the male chicks. Lucky me missed out on seeing that.

"How do they kill crocodiles on crocodile farms?"

I don`t know but it`s a good question I will ask it tomorrow.

Hi Jaybaby and betamax I will PM you soon.

And thanks for the support guys - it is appreciated.

Sorry to do all that to you Indeed, but I appreciate your answers - thank you - and that you will ask about the crocodiles.  

The cattle with their eyes hanging down their faces - that apparently happens when the animal moves it's head as they are being "shot" with the captive bolt or the slaughterman just plain misses.  They are not isolated cases and this was told to me by a fellow who came from a cattle property, worked in an abattoir and who had also been a butcher.  He is not in the habit of exaggerating.

The truck with chickens, JayBaby, sounds like the ones they use to take them to the abattoirs - dozens crammed into tiny little flat cages, stacked one on top of another and another. I used to see so many of them when I'd go to visit my parents at Tamborine Mountain. Some of the birds would escape being shoved into the cages and finish up perched somewhere under the trucks, and fall off along the way and usually get run over by following cars. If they are not killing them at the Uni - are they using them for experiments of some sort, Indeed?

I hope you get some sleep tonight.

I should not have read this post, Im just about to go to bed and all I want to do is be sick. Indeed I am so sorry you have had to endure this vile practice. I cannot imagine how it must have been for you. I just hope that one day, you can help to make it stop.

I hope so too Shane, I am still feeling numb atm.

DH I don`t know of any experiments with the chickens at the vet school I hope it stays that way.

I saw all the chickens crammed into the crates piled on top of each other at the abbatoir waiting to be killed. They get no food or water while waiting but if it is very hot fans are turned on and they are sprayed with water mist apparently.

I am trying not to think too much atm because if I let it all overwhelm me I will be in for a very bad time. All I can say is this is a very very sick world. I would never have thought I would have to experience stuff like this when I decided to be a vet. Yet another niave view of mine I guess.

Yes DH they definitely looked like thats where they were headed:( I was just shocked when the truck followed me into uni.

"All I can say is this is a very very sick world."

Oh yes, Indeed, no truer words spoken.

Thanks for the inside info Indeed,absolutely disturbing.Its very full on to see these places.I am sure you will become an amazing and knowledgable Vego Vet,at the end of your studies,the animals you help will apreciate it.
Perseverance is everything.

Think I should have stayed in bed.

I'm just so glad my much loved cattle will never have to endure these atrocities.
No animals should.

Thanks for being the person you are Indeed.

All I can say Indeed is that I am so sorry that you have had to see this :(
it should not happen at all, people whom eat meat should have to see this
Big hugs to you xxx

I feel for you Indeed.

I too agree Kristin it should be saved for ppl who eat meat. I hope it has had an impact on the rest of your class, who eat meat too.

Indeed, youll be a great vet!

Indeed my heart goes out to you. The incredible strength you have is something I could not pull out of myself if I tried.

Has this changed you? I know how you felt going into it, but do you feel any different again after seeing this? Has your goal as a vet changed?

of course it has changed you...but you know what I mean : )

Wow Indeed. Thankyou for sharing this with us. I want hard facts about what we do in this country to share with family and friends and whoever else who is in denial about our farming practices.

PLease feel free to share whatever you can. I am most willing to listen :-).

Indeed, I am so sorry you have to go through all of this to get to where you want and need to be. The world would be a much better place if there were more people like you in this world. This information saddens me so much.

Indeed, thank you.

I hope you (and DH) don't mind but I am printing DH's questions and your reply and personally handing it to every meat eater I know.

Indeed, my sympathies to you. How you had to "cope" with the confrontation of such regrettable horrors is commendable (if that is the appropriate word). You're a very brave person.
I already “lose” it as is with the knowledge, but to actually see it in person, I think I’d go completely insane. (I’m convinced I’m half way there already). I struggle something terrible ( like you Indeed and others who know the truth out there) to believe that people can actually do this without a blink of an eye.
I often wonder too if depression and/or violence amongst these workers is greatly common. I mean, to kill for a living, it wouldn't be surprising that if many became increasingly aggressive, & that it wouldn’t take much to trigger off violence toward any living being (human or animal).

Just recently I was speaking with one of the staff members who works at an animal produce which is where I purchase feed for my animals. I don’t remember how the conversation lead to the subject about abattoirs, but he confessed he worked for a couple of years at an abattoir as a knocker, and admitted as well (like your friend DH) that the captive bolt or stunners do not work on most of the animals. Many regain consciousness while being sliced up. He left because he couldn’t stand it any longer, and acknowledged that the animals do suffer horrendously. No matter how hard he tried to deny this whilst working there, he saw and heard every bit of their painful death.

I didn't read this thread last night as I was busy searching for info for an associate (meat-eater and who works for an animal cause.....make sense?) as she would not believe me (amongst other cruel animal facts, such as the slaughtering technique of animals world wide, animal testing, and again as I said… for someone who believes in an animal cause doesn’t seem to have problems with eating meat and who likes purchasing leather goods). The same person raised her eyebrows at me when I spoke of how nasty Australia is with the kangaroo industry and the massive numbers slaughtered for meat and fur. This same person believed that the kangaroos are shot merely because they are a pest to the farmers, therefore utilised, and believed the numbers I spoke of was greatly exaggerated. My god!! So blinkered in her beliefs. So I sent three sites to her and to a number of other people, one of the sites contains a petition to sign.
If anyone is interested to sign the petition below, here tis:
http://getactive.peta.org:80/campaign/ca_kanga?c=weekly_enews
("Allowing kangaroo skins to be sold in California would threaten the species' existence, as there are already not enough kangaroos to meet the industry’s demands. According to Australian government statistics, kangaroo populations have been dwindling and are now the lowest they have been in more than a decade. Although SB 880 would allow the sale of skins from non-endangered kangaroos only, hunters usually kill kangaroos at night and don't always check to make sure that kangaroos aren't endangered before shooting them. An increased demand for any kangaroo skin will further jeopardize Australia's dwindling kangaroo populations")

More information of the plight of our kangaroos from Animals Australia site.
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1413&idL2=1415&idL3=1688
"The killing of kangaroos in Australia is the largest terrestrial wildlife slaughter in the world. 2003 saw the highest quota ever set at ever at 6.9 million. The quota is set at 15% of estimated grey kangaroo numbers, and 20% of estimated red kangaroo numbers. In spite of crashing kangaroo numbers in every State due to drought, the quotas for 2004 were set at the same percentage of the estimated reduced population.
For each female kangaroo killed, one or two dependent joeys may also die
No monitoring or policing takes place at the point of kill."
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1273&idL2=1298

The other website, I will send to this person (who thinks I'm full of BS) is this one:
Fatal Fashion: Fur, Leather, and Wool
http://www.peta.org/feat-fatalfashion.asp
This concerns the cruelty of how wool, leather, and fur is obtained. China, India, and yes, good old Australia.
Certainly, this person believes fur is babaric, but not leather or wool. For those who are brave enough to watch the live video, please do. I did, to see if this would be convincing enough (in hope that it will open her eyes a little wider) I had to take a double dose of valium afterwards.The evidence is shocking.

Again I'm sorry Indeed that you were subjected to these atrocities, but am pleased to know that you are one of the good people who will make the world a better place for our voiceless ones.

Thanks for your post Julie May.Yes it sure is hard not to "lose it".

I just thought I would post a photo of my cattle for Indeed.
You must have a heavy heart,but,as you can see,and know, some do survive and live to be elderly ladies and gentlemen.
I moved my cattle from Gympie in QLD to Belford in NSW which was a trip of about 1,300k's.
A few hiccups along the way but we all made it.
Some good things happen Indeed,so try to remember these, even though it must be so hard.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l252/nutmeg_010/CattleGympie.jpg

oooh so beautiful : P

I've decided to become a member Julie May.

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1413&idL2=1421

The details I have just read make me feel so sad and empty. I can't believe there is so much suffering and torture inflicted on our animals day in day out at countless abbatoirs around Australia and the world. I hate to think how many there are hidden in the back blocks of each city. They'd certainly need a lot of them dotted around for the demand :-( Does anyone know the stats of how many abbatoirs and/or how many of each animal is killed each year in Australia for food consumption? Not that I really need to know such a horrific number.

And to think, reading the comments in response to the Age article the other day about Vegetarians and the amount of people who made out how funny and childish it was to be a vegetarian. Do these people really think it's okay this goes on just to satisfy their taste buds for a few seconds? Or are they just ignorant selfish people.

Thank god I don't choose to eat animals. It makes me cry to think of the fear and pain just these few animals experienced, it's hard to comprehend figures beyond. It's when reading things like this I just have no idea how anybody could eat animals, even self confessed animal lovers. IT's beyond me. Humans are so selfish and self absorbed. I hate it.